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Game 8221
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sbryantf



Joined: 03 Aug 05
Posts: 27


PostPosted: Mon Jan 22, 2007 4:27 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Ok, so be it. I agree that the text of the rules seem to back up your interpretation. However, I don't see much to support your belief that the main reason for ending the game was because the players were newbies. If that were the case, then why not simply get them out of the "stuck" state they were in and let them complete the game? Or if you were going to end it, why would you score it instead of simply deleting it? My guess is that milksheikh had misinterpreted the rules in the same way that I did.

Anyway, I'll tell my opponent to continue with the game. Thanks for taking the time to address my concerns.
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freduk



Joined: 18 Jan 06
Posts: 433

Location: Bristol, UK

PostPosted: Mon Jan 22, 2007 5:27 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

This is an interesting development, so I thought I'd dig deeper (having commented on the original game).
In the original game, there really was nowhere left to play a polyp tile, so the game should end and score. To discover this, you need to go to the gamelog to find the current action. This is that Tork (purple) chose to play a yellow cube, along with 3 consumed tiles and 4 from behind the screen. However, once the 4th was placed, there was nowhere to play the fifth, and the game ended. Had he played any other colour, he could have continued, but Yellow is the one colour that can't consume in this configuration.

So it's not about being a newbie, the game end trigger really was reached. I hope this clarifies matters Smile
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nearsider



Joined: 22 Jan 06
Posts: 42

Location: New York, NY

PostPosted: Mon Jan 22, 2007 6:23 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

In my opinion, "no where left to play a tile" implies that the board is full.

The fact that he said he'd play 5 when there were only 4 spaces is irrelevant here. You could just say, "oh, well, you can only play 4 instead of 5 here, then end your turn, and on the next turn someone can eat a shrimp."

I interpret this rule to mean that the game ends if the board is completely full.
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HappyProle
SBW Developer


Joined: 28 Oct 05
Posts: 409

Location: Salt Lake City, UT

PostPosted: Mon Jan 22, 2007 9:18 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

The only way to definitively answer this is to get clarification from Mr. Breese. Here are the possible interpretations so far:

The game ends when:
1) All boards are full of polyp tiles
2) A player cannot play any of his polyp tiles on his turn
3) A player cannot play ALL of the polyp tiles he decides he is going to use (i.e. a player plays a larva cube and four polyp tiles but can only play three of them)

Anyone else see a different interpretation?

Regardless, this is such a rare situation I'm not dying to mess with the game code to handle it regardless of what the correct answer is. Smile
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sbryantf



Joined: 03 Aug 05
Posts: 27


PostPosted: Mon Jan 22, 2007 10:08 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

4) Even if the player had one of each color larva cube and one of each color polyp tile, that player cannot play any polyp tiles on their turn.

Just because a particular player doesn't have the necessary cubes/tiles does not mean there is "no where left to play a tile". There may be many places left to play a tile that you just don't have the resources to take advantage of.
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freduk



Joined: 18 Jan 06
Posts: 433

Location: Bristol, UK

PostPosted: Tue Jan 23, 2007 12:39 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

For ease of reference, the rule in question is
"If there is nowhere left to play a polyp tile (highly unlikely)."

Also bear in mind the rule that states
"Apart from action 5, each action must be completed before another action is started."

My opinions (for what they are worth!)

1) "All boards are full of polyp tiles" is not the same as "nowhere left to play a polyp tile", as it may be possible to play polyp tiles on top of others (consuming them).
2) "A player cannot play any of his polyp tiles on his turn" is not the same either. This could easily be reached simply by running out of cubes...
3) "A player cannot play ALL of the polyp tiles he decides he is going to use (i.e. a player plays a larva cube and four polyp tiles but can only play three of them)" is not the same. This is a SBW implementation. Nowhere in the rules does it say you have to declare how many polyp tiles you are playing (although I understand why SBW is coded thus). Hence the stalemate due to the "finish one action before starting another" rule. In real life, you would play your cube and after the third polyp tile you would have to stop. There is no place to play a fourth yellow tile, but this is not the same as nowhere left to play a polyp tile. Or is it? The rule can be interpreted both ways, and only Mr. Breese knows what he intended.
4) "Even if the player had one of each color larva cube and one of each color polyp tile, that player cannot play any polyp tiles on their turn." is possibly closest. This could only come about (i think) if the board is fragmented to the point where there are are only 1-tile corals, so no eating allowed, or the only 2/3/4-tile corals are surrounded by dominant colours. No 5-tile corals (as these could be eaten to make space). I an see why this might be unlikely.

Having said all that, I'm with HappyProle when he said this isn't worth the effort to change, as we're all just guessing at what was intended by the designer.
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HappyProle
SBW Developer


Joined: 28 Oct 05
Posts: 409

Location: Salt Lake City, UT

PostPosted: Tue Jan 23, 2007 12:59 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Thanks for that summary.

I think it's theoretically possible to have the boards full (similar to how game 18234 was when this current discussion started) and all polyp tiles completely protected ("geographically", with shrimp and through coral tile dominance) in such a way that no player can play a polyp tile, even to consume. For such a scenario I think both players would have to be stuck with no way to change the coral tiles in order to play a tile to consume another.

So while it's theoretically possible for the game to get to this state, it's very unlikely, especially when you consider it's rarely, if ever, going to be in all players' best interests to get the game to such a state.
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viceyl



Joined: 12 Jun 19
Posts: 59990


PostPosted: Thu Jun 20, 2019 10:35 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

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viceyl



Joined: 12 Jun 19
Posts: 59990


PostPosted: Fri Aug 09, 2019 4:33 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

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viceyl



Joined: 12 Jun 19
Posts: 59990


PostPosted: Mon Oct 28, 2019 12:29 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

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taimurr



Joined: 31 Oct 19
Posts: 19


PostPosted: Fri Nov 01, 2019 2:38 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

It was an end-game event. Well spotted.
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