SpielByWeb

cowdog · Joined: 12 Dec 05 Posts: 8 Location: Ellicott City, MD

All:

I do not -- yet -- own this game, though I plan to soon. I have been playing a fair bit on SBW.com

I am confused about the Change the Offering card, or maybe about the web interface. My understanding from the rules is that a player using the card can move the offering up or down by three, which works fine on the web. The ting I cannot figure out how to do is to leave the offering alone.

I can think of a few reasons why this might be, all related to me not seeing some obvious reason one would never want to leave the offering after playing the card. I remember a play when I playede a CtO to help ensure that the offering ended up on the two (higher camel), and it ended up just barely there. I didn't want to spend three gold to increase the offering, nor did I want to take three and drive it to one.

Perhaps I misunderstand the way the offering gets changed. I have always thought that the player either pays in another three, or takes three out. Maybe the bank foots the bill? I cannot say I have noticed for sure, now that I think on it.

Thanks for your patience for this possibly silly question.

Hank
_________________
Road to Hell paved with unbought stuffed dogs -- Ernest Hemingway

Golux13 · Joined: 14 Jul 05 Posts: 209

Changing the offering is completely independent of the gold offered by the players. It merely enables a player to adjust the total offering up or down after all the gold is tallied. So if the total of all offerings is X, then a player who has played the CtO card can raise it to X+3 or lower it to X-3. The player neither receives nor spends any additional gold, nor does the use of the card change the amount of the player's original offering -- if I offer 2 and you offer 3, my use of the card to add 3 will not make my offering greater than yours, and you will collect more rewards than I will.

It is not uncommon for a single CtO card to have no effect. If the total of offerings is 7, for example, then adding (total 10) or subtracting (total 4) will not change the ultimate outcome. Obviously, if more than one player uses the card in the same offering phase, things may turn out different.

Hope this helps.

EDIT: I should add, in response to your question, that once you have chosen to play the CtO card, you cannot choose not to change the offering. You must increase it or decrease it. You can, of course, move the total away from the next level up or down, which can have the same net effect as doing nothing.

cowdog · Joined: 12 Dec 05 Posts: 8 Location: Ellicott City, MD

Golux13 · Joined: 14 Jul 05 Posts: 209

That's a good question. I'm pretty sure Milksheikh just transcribes the actual rules -- which suggests that there is a disconnect in the paper rules about the card, because the rules section on sacrifice says the card only gives the player the opportunity to increase or decrease the sacrifice; but the card description has the "leave it as is" option. Certainly only the former is implemented on SBW.

UPDATE: Looking at the English rules posted at BoardGameGeek, I find the following for the description of the CtO card:

eratos · Joined: 24 Nov 05 Posts: 16

It's a totally moot point. If you want to leave the sacrifice where it is, you always do have that option. If the temple is on "1", then reduce by 3, it'll still be on one.

Similiarly if it hits the "4", then increase, it'll still be 4.

Then if your at the lower end of "2" or "3" then increase, an increase of 3 won't be enough to hit the next level. If you're at the upper end, reduce by 3 and you'll still stay on the same level.

So regardless of whether the rules say you can leave it in place or you have to move +/- 3, it is always possible to pick a move which has no effect.

Golux13 · Joined: 14 Jul 05 Posts: 209

kruhland · Joined: 15 Nov 05 Posts: 7 Location: madison wi

As a house rule we used from GBG, when playing in person the shift 3 card counts as money, so if you do a steal and shift 3 down, you get 6 dollars, if you put in 2 dollars and shift up, its the same a bidding 5 in terms of getting rewards, so you would beat someone sacrificing 4 dollars. Bidding one and shifting down gives you 2 dollars, but no rewards since you stold from the offering. The shift 3 card is so weak compared to some of the others we did this to even it out (the jump over card is weak too but we couldn't come up with something to even this out)

JimPAX · Joined: 30 Jun 05 Posts: 9 Location: Chicagoland, USA

Golux13 has it exactly right.

Part of the internal calculus of playing the card is understanding that more than one play may take the ultimate decision out of your hands (as to the final effect on the offering). If you have to change the offering first, you may be at the mercy of the guy to your right who could "compound" your change with another change of 3 in the same direction.

IMO, making a house rule where the change card equals money (for purposes of determining awards, stealing money, etc.) makes this card WAY too powerful. Playing it with the -3 would earn the player 6 gold, which is equivalent to the BEST award for sacrificing. That's a pyramid, or 3 farmers or 3 power cards GUARANTEED! YIKES!