SpielByWeb

cpsof95 · Joined: 31 Mar 06 Posts: 177 Location: Finland

Yes, it happens again and again. Players who have intention to try to win the game, start messing around and use all their power to make sure another player doesn't win. And yes, I've been the target very often lately. In one game, one player even openly admitted, his goal wasn't to win the game, but to make sure I don't win.

Especially in Tikal, it happens all the time. In the early game, I have set up a camp in a nice location, and I've moved three workers to a temple of 2 far away from the base camp. What does the bully do? Well, he spends his whole turn to bring his leader and a worker there. I use six AP's to move yet three more workers there, and the bully follows by bringing two workers there. Now we're happily even in that temple, and we're screwed as the other two players have taken the whole map.

In Amun-Re, you see players with no farmers sacrificing like crazy totally messing up the game balance. Auctions make no sense as the actual province values may be whatever this bully likes.

I know there are various styles of playing and different kinds of playing groups. But as we're playing with people we don't know, I think we should be more fair and try to play decently instead of bullying around.

I also know it's very hard to control whether a player is bullying excessively, but I wrote this message to open up a discussion.

wotever · Joined: 01 Feb 07 Posts: 2 Location: Arizona, USA

I think this is rather sad, but I don't really know how you can stop it since the other person could argue that it is valid play within the rules.

Personally, I play for enjoyment - winning is a bonus.

JimF · Joined: 02 Jun 05 Posts: 39 Location: Banstead, Surrey

Not something I've noticed in my games though I sometimes wonder whether a high win ratio does draw attention to you as someone not to give an easy ride to. But i've never noticed someone completely ignoring their own game just to ensure I lose. Agreed this is bad if this is happenning.

Having said that one thing I'm careful of in games like Wallenstein and Tikal is not to hit the same player too many times as it seems like a natural reaction for that person to want revenge on you, especially when their chance of victory looks to have gone.

Golux13 · Joined: 14 Jul 05 Posts: 209

ebots_mind · Joined: 25 Sep 06 Posts: 29

I've also noticed that going on in Tikal. Considering I'm not the most experienced player to begin with, this isn't making the game very fun or much of a learning experience.

Also, one of the last Tikal games I played which ended over a month ago, three of the players were boasting about how they were cheating by altering their scores. Apparently, there is a way to hack in and do that. Maybe that ought to be looked into, as their scores were indeed quite excessively past 100 as opposed to all other Tikal games in which I've taken part.

cpsof95 · Joined: 31 Mar 06 Posts: 177 Location: Finland

Yes, collusion can be very beneficial in Tikal.

1) Make an agreement to jointly uncover two temples.
2) Both players move a few workers to the temples.
3) Each scoring round agree to let both players score both temples.

These agreements can be very hard to prove, as tacit collusion may happen without any discussion.

These problems are one of the reasons, why I have started to prefer heads-up and team games. All vs All games just don't work well with players who are well aware of the game dynamics.

Btw, 2v2 Tikal could be quite interesting.

cpsof95 · Joined: 31 Mar 06 Posts: 177 Location: Finland

Ok then, in one of my games one player totally ignored scoring round, and spent his whole turn to bring 5 workers to my temple, although he couldn't score it.

I'm not taking my turn in that game, until this is investigated by the staff. Where can I report this game?

andrew6261 · Joined: 29 May 06 Posts: 39 Location: vancouver, canada

drewholmes · Joined: 20 Oct 06 Posts: 1

freduk · Joined: 18 Jan 06 Posts: 433 Location: Bristol, UK

What exactly are you expecting the admins to do?
They can hardly insist that the player take back his moves (with their help) and move somewhere else. It might be more than a little annoying, but holding the game up will achieve nothing. A little friendly/polite in-game chat might help explain what was going on, but if that's how this player wants to play the game, that's his right.
I suggest you accept the offer of a rematch with the other players, and just let this one take its course.

RyanMC · Posted: Wed Mar 14, 2007 12:42 pm Post subject:

I am not going to set a precedence here. We can not investigate poor play. Kingmaking, suboptimal play, strategic decision, the line between each of these is really gray at times. What the other player did is not cheating, holding a game hostage however is not acceptable. You aren't just affecting the player that came after you, you are affecting the other players in the game. I won't stand for collusion, but a suboptimal play in a scoring round is not proof of collusion, it may not even be proof of bad play. I have recieved complaints like this in the past and then at the end of the game that "bad" move ended up helping the "bad" player win the game. I won't police game decisions, if that's what you want (predictable "good" play) find an AI to play against and not a real human.
_________________
---------------
-=RyanMC=-
---------------

ebots_mind · Joined: 25 Sep 06 Posts: 29

Grow up Andrew.

Cpsof95, good for you for not standing for that kind of b.s.
I'd continue boycotting it, good luck with your outcome!

Bkruppa · Joined: 08 Nov 05 Posts: 241 Location: Fremont, Ca, USA

Grow up Andrew? Boy in my world people who act calmly and just accept problems in life are the ones who have grown up Shocked

...but then again maybe "taking your ball and going home" (i.e. boycotting) is more mature Rolling Eyes

cpsof95 · Joined: 31 Mar 06 Posts: 177 Location: Finland

Thanks for the comments, I have taken my turn now.

Probably I wouldn't have brought up this specific case, unless I had just opened this discussion a little earlier. This was a hot topic for me and seeing this kind of action happening was just a bit too much.

I think the spirit of gaming in general is that every player does his best to win the game. If someone doesn't follow this rule, he's playing a different game than the other players. I don't think any gaming group in the world wants to play with someone who just messes up the game and doesn't even try to win.

So I hope to hear some more suggestions from everybody.

P.S. I think a major part of being a grown-up is being aware of the problems and also taking actions to fix them.

ebots_mind · Joined: 25 Sep 06 Posts: 29

I agree with you Cps, the whole point in being here is to play a game and have fun. The bullying isn't necessary, that's all I'm saying Bkruppa. I accept that that will be inevitable everywhere. But, I think if we ignore it and pretend it isn't happening, we are silently advocating our tolerance for it too. And I couldn't agree with you more, that "part of being grown up is being aware of problems and taking actions to fix them." Well stated.

And by the way Cps, if you're looking for someone who will give you a fair game, shotokanguy is probably the best person to play on this site. The guy lives and breathes by honor codes, so I would trust that he is on his own honor, and that his gaming reflects the same mentality.