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camylarde
Joined: 05 Feb 06 Posts: 3
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Posted: Wed Feb 15, 2006 1:28 am Post subject: Explanation required |
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moved 8 armies from Böhmen into Passau, occupied by lesk's 2 armies aided by peasants
-- 8 of camylarde's attacking armies plus 0 from the cup and 2 of lesk's defending armies plus 1 from the cup go into the tower
-- 6 of camylarde's attacking armies and 4 of lesk's defending armies, aided by 0 peasants, come out of the tower
-- The attack succeeds: 2 of camylarde's armies occupy the conquered territory, and 4 return to the supply along with 4 of lesk's armies
Now would anybody experienced please explain to me why 3 Lesk's armies got into tower and 4 emerged? |
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wchieng
Joined: 17 Sep 04 Posts: 9
Location: Hong kong
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Posted: Wed Feb 15, 2006 1:38 am Post subject: |
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Well the battle tower may of already accumulated cubes for Lesk. In a battle, cubes may be dislodged from within the tower which lead to your result. Thats why after some battles you may see that you have 'armies from the cup' as a result from your cubes dislodging. |
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camylarde
Joined: 05 Feb 06 Posts: 3
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Posted: Wed Feb 15, 2006 9:21 am Post subject: Hmm |
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wchieng wrote: | Well the battle tower may of already accumulated cubes for Lesk. In a battle, cubes may be dislodged from within the tower which lead to your result. Thats why after some battles you may see that you have 'armies from the cup' as a result from your cubes dislodging. |
Not really nice of the game. I read the rules thrice and nowhere i found the explanation for this. As i do not seen this game in real, the "battle tower" is to me just a virtual device to determine the outcome of the battle.It would be nice to be more specific about this in the rules. When the unit stay in the tower(=i assume now everytime it fails to emerge from it), when goes to cup, when to supply. It is confusing to me. |
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Big Bad Lex
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Joined: 16 Oct 05 Posts: 114
Location: Epsom, UK
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Posted: Wed Feb 15, 2006 3:13 pm Post subject: Re: Hmm |
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camylarde wrote: |
Not really nice of the game. I read the rules thrice and nowhere i found the explanation for this. As i do not seen this game in real, the "battle tower" is to me just a virtual device to determine the outcome of the battle.It would be nice to be more specific about this in the rules. When the unit stay in the tower(=i assume now everytime it fails to emerge from it), when goes to cup, when to supply. It is confusing to me. |
I think you are being a bit hard on the game and the rules. On page 1 it says;
Finally, the cube tower receives an initial filling. For this purpose, 7 armies from each player and 10 neutral peasant armies are thrown at one time into the tower. The cubes that fall in the cup are placed back in player or peasant supplies.
Read carefully, it says the tower receives an initial filling. If as you assumed the units that didn't fall into the cup were then lost into the ether, what would have been the point of 'filling' the tower in the first place? |
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lesk
Joined: 08 Nov 05 Posts: 3
Location: Sydney, Australia
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Posted: Wed Feb 15, 2006 4:55 pm Post subject: |
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This leads back to the argument over whether to show the number of units in the tower as well as in the cup. In real life it is obvious some are left in the tower and it is difficult, but not impossible, to track what is in there. Online, it is not obvious how the tower works but it is easy to determine how many are in there as you can count everything else. It even shows the number of units left in supply.
I hope we can accept that online is different from real life and can get this number shown as well. If not, can you try and simulate the real life occurance of bumping the table and getting some extra cubes into the cup. I find this is a good strategy when you lose count ![Smile](images/smiles/icon_smile.gif) |
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Riff
Joined: 30 Oct 05 Posts: 20
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Posted: Wed Feb 15, 2006 6:30 pm Post subject: |
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lesk wrote: | This leads back to the argument over whether to show the number of units in the tower as well as in the cup. In real life it is obvious some are left in the tower and it is difficult, but not impossible, to track what is in there. Online, it is not obvious how the tower works but it is easy to determine how many are in there as you can count everything else. It even shows the number of units left in supply.
I hope we can accept that online is different from real life and can get this number shown as well. If not, can you try and simulate the real life occurance of bumping the table and getting some extra cubes into the cup. I find this is a good strategy when you lose count ![Smile](images/smiles/icon_smile.gif) |
It is not that difficult to work out how many armies are in the tower and therefore what you chances could be. Don't forget that all your armies for one battle could stay in the tower - its perfectly possible.
Showing the amount of armies in the tower would ruin the game - so its a complete no. The big advantage you have with the online game is that you can read the log and count back what is in there. Despite this you can never ever guraentee a win - but you can adjust the odds in your favour. |
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bwtcf
Joined: 30 Oct 05 Posts: 10
Location: New Zealand
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Posted: Wed Feb 15, 2006 6:43 pm Post subject: |
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Riff wrote: | The big advantage you have with the online game is that you can read the log and count back what is in there. |
How is that a big advantage that you have when you play online? You mean to say you don't do that in a face to face game??? Really? You just count each players pieces on the board, and count their supply in front of them, and the missing ones are in the tower.
When you play El Grande, and the card "Score the Castillo" is available, do you really not count all the caballeros that you can see for all the players and work out how many each player has in the Castillo?
BC _________________ Tichu is not a game of speed, it is an art. |
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bwtcf
Joined: 30 Oct 05 Posts: 10
Location: New Zealand
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Posted: Wed Feb 15, 2006 6:46 pm Post subject: |
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When you play Settlers of Catan and you have a monopoly card, do you count, or at least geusstimate which pile of resource cards is the smallest to work out which resource there is most of in people's hands?
BC _________________ Tichu is not a game of speed, it is an art. |
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TexasToast
Joined: 04 Dec 05 Posts: 3
Location: Grapevine, Texas
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Posted: Wed Feb 15, 2006 7:05 pm Post subject: |
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lesk wrote: | This leads back to the argument over whether to show the number of units in the tower as well as in the cup. In real life it is obvious some are left in the tower and it is difficult, but not impossible, to track what is in there. Online, it is not obvious how the tower works but it is easy to determine how many are in there as you can count everything else. It even shows the number of units left in supply.
I hope we can accept that online is different from real life and can get this number shown as well. If not, can you try and simulate the real life occurance of bumping the table and getting some extra cubes into the cup. I find this is a good strategy when you lose count ![Smile](images/smiles/icon_smile.gif) |
I think the bigger issue is whether our esteemed host is better off spending his time continuing to tweak a working game, or developing the new ones in the pipeline. I know how I would answer that question...
TT |
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camylarde
Joined: 05 Feb 06 Posts: 3
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Posted: Thu Feb 16, 2006 12:51 am Post subject: |
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TexasToast wrote: |
I think the bigger issue is whether our esteemed host is better off spending his time continuing to tweak a working game, or developing the new ones in the pipeline. I know how I would answer that question...
TT |
... by perfecting the existing game before moving to another one? |
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Big Bad Lex
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Joined: 16 Oct 05 Posts: 114
Location: Epsom, UK
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Posted: Thu Feb 16, 2006 5:07 am Post subject: |
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camylarde wrote: |
... by perfecting the existing game before moving to another one? |
Try again.
Also to answer bwtcf's point, Riff is right, it is much easier (and quicker) to calculate units in the tower on line than in the actual board game. You say you 'just' count each players pieces on the board and supply. Well perhaps your gaming group like 5 hour games of Wallenstein, but if that was attempted with my groups you would be slapped down pretty sharpish, and told to stop wasting time. You'll be saying you allow pens and paper on the table next. |
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bwtcf
Joined: 30 Oct 05 Posts: 10
Location: New Zealand
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Posted: Thu Feb 16, 2006 5:27 am Post subject: |
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It doesn't take any time at all. Well sometimes it might take 5 - 10 seconds to finish... but I do it when everyone else is having their turns. What do you do with that time?
If you are keeping track of it you don;t have to recount everything each turn, you just count the bits that have changed and recheck a few things.
BC _________________ Tichu is not a game of speed, it is an art. |
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Golux13
Joined: 14 Jul 05 Posts: 209
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Posted: Thu Feb 16, 2006 9:56 am Post subject: |
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I suppose if you have Rain Man counting speed and memory, it's easy enough in a live game, but for most mere mortals, keeping track of three other players' cubes is not a simple matter. Counting the cubes on the board is easy enough, but people don't stack their supply cubes neatly, and as cubes go into and out of the supply, the piles get messier, not neater. It might be possible to have a running estimate, but if you lose track of even a couple of cubes, your tower calculations will be off. The online implementation gives you the numbers you need, so calculation is a matter of moments. |
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Riff
Joined: 30 Oct 05 Posts: 20
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Posted: Thu Feb 16, 2006 1:50 pm Post subject: |
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bwtcf wrote: | It doesn't take any time at all. Well sometimes it might take 5 - 10 seconds to finish... but I do it when everyone else is having their turns. What do you do with that time? |
But that's drinkin' time. Sacrilege... |
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